A really long post about Nero and what she should get for her Death Battle against Geats

If this post seems familiar, then that's because I'm reposting this from the r/deathbattle subreddit, but I just thought I'd post it here as well since it may be applicable to other Fate matchups, especially those who play a large role in the Extraverse games. This is a really long post, sorry for the yap fest lmao.

TL; DR: I think that the battle should occur in the Moon Cell since there are forms and powers that Nero only has access to or as strong as they are because of her authority over the Moon Cell. I also think Nero should explicitly be Hakuno’s servant for the battle, however with additional stipulations, whether that be through making Hakuno absent from the fight but still retaining their connection, or giving Geats help from Ziin, Tsumuri, and/or the other Kamen Riders. Without Nero having access to neither Hakuno nor the Moon Cell, Geats just stomps Nero no question, which would just make for a boring debate, and as this year has shown so far, people are getting tired of stomps. For specific forms, Nero should have access to her base Red Saber form, the Mythological Mystic Code of Emperor and the Moon Crux Regalia without much debate, especially if Hakuno is involved. While her Nero Bride and Swimsuit/Caster form do appear as costumes in the Extra games, in F/GO they’re a different character and not the same Nero as in the Extraverse… kinda. While Nero Bride is still considered a different character, Caster Nero flip-flops between being both the Extraverse Nero and the F/GO Nero, so I do think an argument can be made for her getting her Caster form. Her Saber Venus form was a one-time thing that required outside help not normally available to her or Hakuno, so I’m fine with not giving her access to that (it would be neat though). Nero’s Beast form AKA Sodom’s Beast AKA Draco should not be given to her, as it is explicitly stated to be an entirely different character from the regular Nero, and a form that she cannot access unless she is initially summoned that way.

So recently there’s been a bunch of posts about the upcoming Geats vs Nero episode, but there’s also been some questions and misinformation about Nero’s kit and what she realistically should and should not get for the episode. I thought I’d make this post to basically go over all of Nero’s forms and highlight what they are, how she gets them, some of the powers she gets with them, and whether she should get them or not. I’m also going to try and answer two questions that have been floating whose answers can drastically change the debate and outcome of the match:

1. Should Hakuno be involved in any way with the match?
2. Should the battle take place inside of the Moon Cell/SE.RA.PH?

I was debating with myself as to whether I should make this post now or once we officially get into the Geats vs Nero waiting period, however since it’s been confirmed that the episode will be coming out next year, I thought I’d just post this now and repost it again after. Also, I should make this clear: I don’t know jack shit about powerscaling, nor am I going to try. I understand the basics, but I have no idea how to calculate how many tons of TNT Nero produces from the clap of her ass cheeks or if her migraines are Complex-Hyper-Ultra-Multi-Omniversal. I’m just a fan of Fate, and since this is the first time the franchise as a whole is going to be on the main series (we’ve had a couple DBX’s which have either been decent or… not that great), I just want it to be represented as best as possible in hopes of future Fate episodes. Obviously, there will be some spoilers since I can’t really talk about all of this without getting somewhat into them, but I’ll try to avoid them when I can. That said, I don’t think it takes away from the enjoyment of the series, because there’s just… so much stuff. So yeah, sorry in advance if I miss or overlook some stuff. With all of that out of the way, let’s get into it.

BASIC FATE TERMINOLOGY

Because a bunch of Nero’s forms and abilities require me to use a bunch of Fate jargon for them to make some sense, I’m also going to use part as a basic introduction to some Fate terminology. I haven’t consumed every piece of Fate or Type-Moon media (I refuse to touch Fate/kaleid with a 10-foot pole), but I’m knowledgeable enough that I can explain the basics of Fate, as well as talk about the games in which Nero is present, namely the Extra games and the gacha hell that is F/GO. But these terms shouldn’t be too complicated to understand.

Servant: Servants are basically a special form of familiar/spirit typically based on historical and mythological figures, although there’ve also been Servants based on literary characters, characters from other Type Moon media, the personification of a city, and a thought experiment. While most Servants are summoned by a Master, there are exceptions. Namely, Rogue Servants, who are Servants that either lost their Master or were summoned without a Master, such as through the Counter Force, basically the collective will of mankind and the Earth that summons Servants and other spirits whenever the Earth or humanity is faced with extinction.

Master: A Master is someone who has made a contract with a Servant and typically act as the Servant’s source of mana. Masters possess a special kind of sigil known as Command Spells, which allows them to make their Servant follow any command they said. Command Spells have been used in numerous ways, such as to give Servants a power boost, to forcibly teleport Servants to their side, to making them commit suicide, to forcing them to wear a swimsuit, to even reviving them from death.

Class: There isn’t much to explain here, they’re basically roles a Servant can fit into based on their specialties. The Saber class uses swords, the Archer class is made up of archers, the Berserker class goes berserk, etc. However, Servants can appear in multiple classes and can even change classes. Nero, for example, is typically a Saber, however she has also appeared as a Caster, Alter Ego, and Beast (more on those specific manifestations later).

Noble Phantasm: These are basically the ultimate tools and/or techniques of a Servant, the culmination of their life history and usually what they are best known for. King Arthur has Excalibur, Cú Chulainn has the Gáe Bolg, Odysseus’ famous Trojan Horse Gundam (can’t believe Christopher Nolan took that out of the movie), you get the idea. More on Nero’s Noble Phantasms later.

Holy Grail War: A battle-royale style competition in which Masters and Servants fight until there is only one pair left standing. The winner wins, well, the Holy Grail, which allows the winner any one wish. Or, if you play F/GO, it boosts your level cap. Nero participates in the Moon Holy Grail War, which is basically a Holy Grail War… but on DA MOON.

Stats: Each Servant has six stats: Strength (how strong they are), Endurance (how much damage they can take), Agility (how fast they are), Magical Power (how much mana they can hold), Luck (how lucky they are), and Noble Phantasm (how strong their Noble Phantasm is, or in cases where they have multiple, how strong their strongest Noble Phantasm is). These stats can change depending on factors such as the Class a servant is in or if they have any permanent buffs from outside sources. It’s honestly best to just think of these as like Stand Stats from JoJo’s and not take them too seriously since they tend to contradict themselves a lot. Except Luck, that one is usually accurate.

Skills: Basically the special abilities and characteristics of a Servant. Class Skills are connected to a Servant’s Class, while Personal Skills are connected to a Servant themselves and are based on their abilities or stories from their lives. In F/GO, these are instead divided as Passive Skills, skills which, well, passively buff a Servant, and Active Skills, skills which need to consciously be utilized by the Servant. More on Nero’s specific skills later.

Parameter Rules: The grading/ranking system for a Servant’s stats and skills. They usually range from E to A, although there are outlier stats, notably the EX ranking, which is rank given when it can’t be ranked by the normal letter system. Some parameters also have a “+” next to them, which signifies that a rank can be temporarily boosted to even beyond the next letter rank. For example, while a B rank is lower than an A rank, a B+ rank has the capacity to momentarily exceed an A rank.

Extraverse: This refers to the games Fate/EXTRA, Fate/EXTRA CCC, Fate/EXTRA CCC FoxTail, Fate/EXTRA Last Encore, Fate/EXTELLA, EXTELLA/Zero, and Fate/EXTELLA LINK. There’s a current remake for Fate/EXTRA in production called Fate/EXTRA Last Encore. Basically, the Extraverse are the games that take place in the Moon Cell, with Nero staring in all of them, except for FoxTail, a spin-off manga where best fox wife Tamamo is Hakuno’s main Servant.

WHO IS HAKUNO?

So by this point I’m sure most of you are at the very least somewhat familiar with Nero, however you may not have an idea as to who Hakuno is. Hakuno Kishinami is the Master of Nero in the Extraverse and a participant in the Moon Holy Grail War. While they start out as basically a self-insert for the player, later games flesh them out into their own character (btw there’s a male and female version of Hakuno, so for this post I just refer to both of them as “they”, since their gender doesn’t really impact their abilities”). They have severe amnesia for story reasons I won’t get into, important to note is that they have a very strong relationship with Nero and are crucial to her character arc and abilities throughout the Extraverse. Hakuno and Nero even get married at the end of Nero’s route in CCC. Important to note here is that there are multiple versions of Hakuno, however the version that I believe should be used is their appearance in Fate/EXTELLA and Fate/EXTELLA LINK. EXTELLA takes place in an alternate timeline to Fate/EXTRA and Fate/EXTRA CCC in which Hakuno wins the Holy Grail War with Nero alongside Tamamo no Mae (the different events are revealed in the writer Nasu’s EXTELLA/ZERO blog, read it if you want, but there are spoilers for EXTRA and CCC) and becomes the admin of the Moon Cell through the possession of the Regalia, which is in Nero’s possession. That unfortunately means no Servant) Hakuno) and no Baby Hakuno(n).)

WHAT IS THE MOON CELL?

You know how in Gurren Lagann the Moon was actually a giant mech that spied on the Earth? Well, in the Extraverse, the Moon actually houses what is basically a giant supercomputer called the Moon Cell, which was made by an alien race billions of years ago before the formation of the actual moon (???) that keeps a record of Earth’s entire existence from its creation to the modern day. The Moon Cell itself has multiple layers, that being the surface of the moon, SE.RA.PH, which Summons servants and acts as the setting for the Moon Holy Grail War, and the Far Side of the Moon, which is an imaginary space that essentially acts as the Moon Cell’s trash bin which stores malicious data and imaginary numbers. Gilgamesh also sleeps here sleeps. Why? Because he’s him. Sasuga AUO.

SHOULD HAKUNO BE INVOLVED IN THE BATTLE? SHOULD THE BATTLE TAKE PLACE IN THE MOON CELL?

Before I go into Nero’s kit, it’s best to answer these two questions first, because they can dictate the outcome of the match. To be blunt, without both Hakuno and the Moon Cell, Nero is screwed. Geats as the God of Genesis is just too strong for base Nero, and Nero can only reach her peaks because of Hakuno and the Moon Cell. That said, I do think Nero should have access to both Hakuno and the Moon Cell, and I believe there’s a way that they can be implemented that is both faithful to Nero’s character and in accordance with Death Battle’s rules.

Starting with the easier of the two, should the battle take place in the Moon Cell? I think it should, and I’m genuinely surprised why people don’t think so. There have been multiple battles which were required to take place in a specific world or location in order for a combatant to be able to use their entire kit. Joker from Persona 5 needed to fight within the Metaverse in order to actually use his Personas against Giorno. Thanos needed to be within his own universe in order to be able to use the Infinity Gauntlet against Darkseid. If those two can be at home turf, why can’t Nero with the Moon Cell? It just widens the debate by giving Nero a higher ceiling of power, as well as making us ask whether Geats has some way to bring the battle outside of the Moon Cell (he probably does, Kamen Rider is fucking insane), and in turn if Nero can prevent Geats from doing so and keep the battle inside the Moon Cell (she probably does, Fate is fucking insane).

The more controversial question is Hakuno, and I definitely understand why this is the case. Hakuno isn’t just the Master of Nero, but a Master of a bunch of) other Servants as well. Not only that, Hakuno can directly support Nero through their Command Spells and Mystic Codes, gear that allows them to use support skills called Code Casts. Simply put, Hakuno gives Nero a bunch of outside help, which is why some believe that Hakuno should not be a part of the battle. Now, Nero can do stuff without a Master, such as by incarnating as a Rogue Servant, so the battle can happen without Nero being Hakuno’s Servant. That said, I do still believe that Nero should be a Servant of Hakuno, not only because a large part of her character is her relationship with Hakuno, but a large amount of her kit becomes inaccessible without being a Servant of Hakuno (which I will discuss soon). That begs the question: how involved can or should Hakuno be in the battle? The way I see it, there are two possible scenarios that can still allow for the battle to be relatively even:

1. Nero is allowed to get help from Hakuno, however Geats in turn is also allowed outside help. That begs the question: who should Geats get help from? The most obvious one would be Ziin, who acts as Geats’ sponsor and provides him with various Raise Buckles during the Desire Grand Prix. Ziin can also fight alongside Geats via the Laser Raise Riser, although he does later give it to Geats. There’s also Tsumuri, who plays a more navigational/support role, and thus would be less involved in the fight, but could assist Geats by providing him information or, like Ziin, providing him with Raise Buckles. While at one point in the story she becomes the Goddess of Genesis, she shouldn’t have this power since it is later given to Geats. If you want to go the extreme route and give Hakuno all of their servants, then you can have Geats fight alongside other Kamen Riders, like Tycoon, Na-Go, Buffa (Toxic Yaoi my beloved), and PunkJack. Though at that point, it becomes less Geats vs Nero, and more Geats vs Hakuno. That said, a Kamen Rider vs Servant army battle would be really cool!
2. Hakuno is not present for the battle but still has a connection to Nero. This is entirely possible. At the beginning of Fate/Extella, it’s shown that Nero uses the Regalia to recruit Servants without Hakuno’s input. Not only that, one of the Servants even points out that Nero’s the one who actively possesses and utilizes the Regalia and thus should be the true ruler of SE.RA.PH., to which Nero responds that Hakuno shares equal authority not just because she’s their Master and the winner of the Moon Holy Grail War, but because she’s trusts and cherishes them the most. Because of that, you can easily have a scenario where Hakuno is absent from the fight while still having Nero retain her connection to Hakuno. And by absent, I mean not present at all, not as part of the Regalia, which they can enter into at anytime to assist Nero, although that makes it a Maka-Soul or a Master Chief-Cortana style relationship, which I do think is fine, but again, doesn’t stop Hakuno from using other Servants.

In my opinion, I prefer the second scenario, because it retains the focus of the fight being Geats vs Nero while still allowing Nero access to most of her kit. It can also be used as a set-up for the fight: Hakuno is missing and Nero is searching for them, and believes that Geats has something to do with it. It can also allow Nero some good character moments with her resolve to reunite with Hakuno. Now, technically there is a way for Nero to fight without Hakuno and the Moon Cell, such as if she was summoned as a Rogue Servant in a Singularity, so the battle can still happen with them. However, I hope that my arguments above convince at least some people about allowing Nero access to Hakuno and the Moon Cell.

NERO’S FORMS: WHAT SHE SHOULD AND SHOULD NOT GET

So assuming that the battle takes place inside the Moon Cell and Nero is a Servant of Hakuno, what forms and abilities should Nero get access to? Here, I’ll go over all of Nero’s forms, some of the stuff she can do with them, and if she should get them or not.

1. Base Form/Red Saber: Her base and most iconic form, obviously she should get access to this. Famously, this form comes with the skill Imperial Privilege EX, which basically allows her to use any skill if she wants to, and her Noble Phantasm Aestus Domus Aurea, which allows her to summon her theatre and gives her a power boost à la Domain Expansion style (I mean in Fate they have Reality Marbles instead, but this Noble Phantasm is explicitly stated to not a Reality Marble). She also wields a neat sword called Aestus Estus, which can shoot fire, and in the F/GO manga mortalis:stella-, it can also make trees. She also has Invicstus Spritus A, which allows her to revive herself from death up to three times, and Migraine B, which… gives her a migraine, which in turn nerfs her Imperial Privilege ability to only last for a limited time when she activates it. I know what you’re asking: how is having a migraine a skill? My friend, that’s not even the weirdest skill in Fate. One Servant has a skill that’s just tuberculosis. Another one has a skill that tricks people into giving her wedding gifts. One Servant has a skill that’s just lesbianism). I’m not kidding. She’s so down-bad that she literally gets weaker if she has to fight her crush. Why is this a skill? I don’t know, but that implies that Nero can attain this skill via Imperial Privilege, which means that Fate has lesbian scaling. By the way, her dress isn’t see-through, she’s just letting people see.
2. Mythological Mystic Code of Emperor: A transformation that she uses at the end of CCC to fight on par with BB and Kiara Sessyoin, who both separately completely merge with the Moon Cell. While she could not unlock the Mythological Mystic Code of Emperor without the help of Rani, Rin, Jinako, Sakura, and especially Hakuno, it’s specifically stated that it was a power that Nero was not aware of since it was sealed by the Moon Cell. But since she gains control over the Moon Cell via the Regalia, she’s capable of accessing the Mystic Code at any time. While in CCC Sakura states that it can only be used once due to the strain it puts on Nero’s body, in EXTELLA Nero says that she should be capable of using it again due to possessing the Regalia, although this isn’t shown since Hakuno believes it’s not strong enough to fight against Altera. She has the same skills and Noble Phantasm as her base form, so this is basically a really big power-up for her.
3. Moon Crux/Regalia Form: A form she takes from using the Regalia, a ring that Nero possesses that gives her authority over the Moon Cell and allows her to draw on its power. While the Regalia is technically shared between Nero and Hakuno, as mentioned before, Nero doesn’t necessarily need to be with Hakuno to use it, so there shouldn’t be a problem giving it to her for the battle. Here she goes full on brawler mode, fighting with fists and kicks of flames. Furthermore, since the Regalia is essentially a portable version of the Holy Grail, she also has wish powers like Geats. She also gets a super cool helmet for aura, but it makes her uncomfy, so she doesn’t wear it.
4. Saber Venus (NSFW Warning): A form Nero gets at the end of Fate/Extella by summoning the power of the goddess Venus within her by using Altera’s Sword of Mars as a catalyst. It’s a form she was only able to access temporarily due to the Sword of Mars having specific qualities that allowed for the summoning of Venus into her body, and one she loses in the sequel, Fate/EXTELLA LINK. Because of that, I definitely understand why some people argue that she shouldn’t get access to this form, and I would not be mad if Death Battle decided that this should be the case as well. That said, Altera Larva, a reincarnation of Altera in EXTELLA LINK, does have another version of the Sword of Mars, so maybe she could hypothetically access the form again? Probably not, and even if she could, that’s still outside help, but I mean… Saber Venus vs GeatsIX would be cool. Hype moments and aura and such.
5. Nero Bride: Now we’re getting into her F/GO forms… kinda. In Fate Extra/CCC, Nero gets a bridal outfit because… why not. In F/GO however, it’s an alternate version of Nero who never went through the events of Fate/Extra and thus never met with Hakuno, instead bonding with the other self-insert Ritsuka Fujimaru (I’m sorry for slandering you my GOAT, but it’s true). Why? Because in F/GO, the base Nero (her Red Saber form) retains some memories of the Extraverse… for some reason. She also gets new parameters and some new skills, but honestly, it’s not a crazy buff or change compared from her other forms, so it’s no big deal if she doesn’t get those skills.
6. Swimsuit Nero/Caster Nero: Because F/GO is a gacha game, obviously they’re gonna put people in swimsuits for fan-service. Enter Caster Nero. Unlike her Bridal Form, Caster Nero is a lot more unique. As the name suggests, she changes from a Saber class to a Caster class. In this form she gets, among other things, a pipe organ that can shoot lasers (???), a modified version of Imperial Privilege called Rampaging Privilege EX that gives her such bullshit luck that she’ll get first place in a race no matter what, and a new version of her Noble Phantasm called Laudatum Domus Illustris, which has a shit ton of the previously mentioned laser-shooting pipe organs that all shoot at once. Again, this is a costume in the Extra games, but an entirely different form in F/GO. Now, in the event that she first appears in it’s Bridal Nero specifically who becomes a Caster, but at the same time it’s also the OG Nero? Kinda? It’s not really clear. While in the event Caster Nero debuts she gets a swimsuit because Fujimaru asked her to join a race, in her profile it says that she was jealous that a bunch of people got to on a summer island without her and tried to get a swimsuit of her own. This is shown in-game as well, as in a previous event Nero talked about how much she wants a swimsuit, and if you successfully gamble summon her, then she talks about how she’s happy she finally got a swimsuit. Not only that, in her Valentine Event she gives Fujimaru a chocolate statue of herself as Saber Venus, which she claims that it “just came to her”, and is also seen as a statue on her Noble Phantasm. It isn’t really clear, arguments can be made on both sides as to whether Nero should get access to this form or not. Personally, I think she should, mainly because it would be funny to see Wiz and Boomstick explain what the fuck’s going on with Nero’s pipe organ laser cannons.
7. Beast Nero/Sodom’s Beast/Draco: A form that actually does not appear in the Extraverse, this is a version of Nero that manifests as a Beast-class Servant. It’s an alternate version of Nero who after committing suicide, instead of forgiving her people for not defending her, curses them, and as a result becomes the Whore of Babylon (another NFSW warning) from the Bible. In fact, many scholars believe that due to the real-life Nero’s persecution of Christians, the number 666 (the number of the devil) actually refers to Nero. Draco makes two appearances, one in the F/GO mobile game and another in the now discontinued Japan-exclusive F/GO arcade game (yes there was an arcade game, yes we hated it because we couldn’t play it, ONORE ARCADO), and the one in the mobile game also appears as an Alter Ego Servant. She has a really cool Noble Phantasm that summons the Beast of Revelation, however I believe she (unfortunately) should not get access to this form. Unlike her Bridal and Caster forms, which do make appearances in the Extraverse games and have been retconned to be the same as Extraverse Nero in F/GO, this Nero is an entirely different character. They explicitly say so at the end of the Lilim Harlot event, Draco’s official appearance in the F/GO mobile game. Compositing Nero with Draco would be like giving Superman the Retcon Punch by compositing him with Superboy-Prime. Sure, they’re technically alternate versions of each other, but they’re completely different characters. Because of that, I believe that Nero shouldn’t have access to Draco. Though if she did, then this battle would basically be Fox Jesus vs. the Bisexual Anti-Christ.
8. Padoru: The strongest version of Nero. She will always arrive around Christmas no matter what. She is inevitable. Padoru Nero vs. Mariah Carey when???

CONCLUSION + FINAL THOUGHTS

If you make it all the way here, thank you so much for reading. I spent too much time making this post lmao. Fate (and Type-Moon as a whole) is often considered to be one of the most convoluted and confusing franchises out there, which… yeah, it is. It’s a large reason why people have a hard time getting into it. So, for those have no idea who Nero is or what she can do, or if you do know but have a hard time wrapping your head around it, I hope this helps give you at least a basic idea, and hopefully it will help you with other Fate characters as well. I really got into Fate during COVID, and it quickly became my go-to comfort series, so I really hope that Geats vs. Nero is super successful and encourages the team to do other Fate episodes. It’s understandable if there are still some things that are not totally clear, so if you have any questions, feel free to ask under this post or in a separate post, I’m sure there are other Fate fans in this subreddit who would be happy to answer.

Anyways, that’s the end of this post. If you play F/GO, feel free to add me. My friend code is 413,142,657.